Regarding WLM 2009

Dear Jonathan,
It is Thursday and Microsoft has not stoped the MSNP21 Protocol. So can you please consider keep trying to “build an interface between the older and newer protocol” like you said in the main page?

“My efforts on bridging an interface between the newer and older protocol
wasn’t terribly successful so far. You can always use Messenger 2009
or other clients if they’re made to work again.”

Please Jonathan, we beg you. WLM 2009 is too gold to be abandoned. We cannot survive without the handwriting features.

Can’t Reviver be made to act like a translator in real-time translating
MSNP18 protocol to MSNP21 and sending it to the servers? or something
similar to this? Or any other thing that can be done?

Please Jonathan, be our hero again. We trust in you. Please think in your XP users. And in the people who cannot survive without the handwriting. We can help you with anything you may need. We can gather some people with knowledge to help you, send donations, etc. Just don’t hesitate to ask.

Please don’t give up on WLM 2009 :sob:


I’ve actually been meaning to ask you, what do you actually use handwriting for? In actual use cases I mean.

Now, I’m not sure if I ever stated this anywhere but I’m very much a pro-handwriting/ink/pen user. I’ve bought the IR desktop pens, own and use regularly a 2009 pen ThinkPad Tablet PC and have loved the feature in Messenger since it showed up in a demo. That said, there are other ink-capable software that could be an alternative, depending on what you’re using it for.

It might be a stretch, but the rumour is Steven Sinofsky when he ran the Office team, was responsible for neutering the pen support in Office 2003 and subsequently when he took full control of Windows for Windows 8, pen support was significantly reduced everywhere, Internet Explorer (technically Windows Internet Explorer) removed pen flicks support (still not restored last time I looked, and other browsers support it fine), Lync 2013 removed handwriting support, and as we all know, Windows Live Messenger dropped handwriting at the same time.

Sinofsky is gone now and it does look like handwriting is making a bit of a comeback. The latest Windows 10 beta build has a whole-new handwriting input panel, the Lync “app” added handwriting support, the feature is touted in Surface advertisements and I wouldn’t even be surprised if the whatever-the-new IE is called, that pen flicks will work in it. I would be highly surprised if some sort of ink-support didn’t show up in Skype in the next few versions.

With regards to this protocol translation that’s been advocated, it’s not just direct translation that we’re talking about. MSNP21 made some significant changes to how messaging is done, including removing whole concepts (like switchboards) from MSNP18. In other words, we’re talking about creating a proxy server-side implementation of something that was only ever figured out on the client side, from scratch, for a client without source code, or even a working server to copy or test from. In other words, working in the dark with nothing but reverse-engineered protocol documentation that’s probably complete. Ultimately, as much as I would like to appease you, I know better to take on huge projects I can’t do or have the inclination to figure it all out.

All that said, I will tell you now that I do have a “Plan B” that I’ve been exploring with and will be working on in the coming days. I stress that Plan B does not involve reviving the 2009 version of Messenger.

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:sleepy: :confounded: :hushed:

Cheer up my friend, better days ahead!

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LIES! There are NO better days ahead if you can’t get MSN 2k9 working again. None at all. MSN 2k12 is awful in every way, and a resource hog. If it’s ever up and running for win XP, it’ll likely crash well and often too on my computer.

MSN 2k9 is the only stable build for me that works.

Basically me and my contacts like to send drawings to one another frequently. And to have the drawings directly on the conversation window is really handy. If we shared these drawings through other means, like sending it as image files, we would end with tons of files in our HDDS. Having the drawings directly in the conversation window is useful because I configured Messenger Plus to instantly save in History all my conversations and then I have all the drawings stored in just one history file.

Just out of curiosity, does your “Plan B” involve including Handwriting in WLM 2012? If so then I would really appreciate it.

That guy must be the devil himself, who would be crazy enough to remove Handwriting from all things? LOL

Try upgrading from a 15 year old operating system and report back if it still crashes for ya. I’m surprised it even installs under XP, I mean I figured they kept support for MSN 2009 etc. because XP couldn’t handle the 2012 version but I guess that wasn’t the case.

In regards to handwriting, you can easily avoid littering your HDD with files I believe by simply using the clipboard to transfer what you drew in your paint application (MSPaint, Photoshop etc.) in to MSN Messenger (Ctrl A, Ctrl C to copy what you drew and then go to MSN Messenger and press Ctrl V). The recipient doesn’t even need to save the file to view it, MSN 2012 and 2009 will show a scalable copy of the drawing in the main window!

Just don’t use a huge canvas in your paint program.

The only problem is that me and my contacts actually want to save the drawings we send to one another, it is just that its better having the drawings stored in a single Messenger Plus history file, instead of multiple image files. I guess we grew too attached to doing things this way, that will be a bit hard to try doing it differently (We were doing this for a decade). But thanks for the info anyway.

If Jonathan somehow bring handwriting back to WLM 2012 then I will be forever grateful to him.

Microsoft really screwed things up. I don’t know what they had in mind when they discontinued Messenger support because of that garbage called Skype. They should allow us to use whatever we want. They should at least keep accepting MSNP18 protocol to allow us use WLM 2009 with Reviver. I am tired of that forced upgrades thing that Microsoft always does.

I will just give my few cents here with a small wall of text and say I understand what Santa says, I already tried WLM2012 in hopes of getting some relief but I did not… I’m very picky when it comes to what a IM client needs to have for me to feel happy with it, obviously customization is the main issue but aside from that, what bugs me more from WLM2012 is sequential message grouping which could be disabled in previous versions but not a chance in WLM2012 it seems.

Oldschool display names is another thing, I’ve been using skype for a while and although I hate living in the trash for now I have no other option, seems all messengers I try come up piled with stuff I hate, Sequential message grouping, rounded avatars, no custom emoticons, poor or no display name customization at all, ugly interface.

WLM2009 was indeed the best Messenger ever and will ever be, I could just hope for Microsoft to open their eyes and update skype in the future but I rather don’t keep my hopes up, jeez I even considered learning some coding language just to try and build up a new messenger client from the ground up even if I had to code my own private server myself but by the time I finish maybe someone else may have released something already.

So I suppose I will keep living in trash with skype for now… last version interface is UGLY as hell but I can digest that FOR NOW, at least I have old school display names and I can drag images on the chat screen as some sort of “emoticon replacement” for now… but god I really hope microsoft adds more customization in the future… skype also has sequential message grouping on the lastest version (cant remember if it had it on previous ones) and its the thing I’m hating the most and its whats keeping me from learning to love skype more… I wont downgrade because I would lost the functionality to preview images on chat screen… oh my Microsoft made such a MESS, I curse the day and whoever took the initiative to kill off WLM…


Why don’t you like sequential messages from a single contact being grouped together? It still tells you when it was last sent if at least a minute has elapsed since their last message and still flashes on your taskbar if they sent a new message and the chat is out of focus…

Two reasons, I don’t know in WLM because I always turned it off but in skype message grouping its way too packed up, sometimes I read what a contact says but have to pay attention to something else or I’m busy multitasking or doing job stuff, when I go back to the screen I find myself staring at a wall of text trying to find what was the last paragraph I was reading before because it piles up anything said on the same minute the message was send.

The second thing might be just a trivial thing for many but I do also roleplay sometimes and it messes up my roleplay style, its mostly a matter of preference too, I’m used to see it that way and it wont hurt anyone to give the option to either use it or do not use it, but you know Microsoft and User Choice are two things that wont go together anymore.