NINA & Escargot from the inside

I believe April 14th was the initial public announcement date, and the day the Skype channel was created. That would’ve likely been money that was donated and “marked” for Skype that day, i.e. detailed in the payment description/etc.

Later on there were more significant contributions. I genuinely believe Skype, in the end, at least got Tony a low 5-figure sum, especially with regular large contributors (although I never got true numbers - I wonder why lol.) I know of at least one individual who has thrown multiple thousands of dollars at Skype, not to mention the collective donations from others.

3 Likes

lmao lovely, especially knowing how there was a constant cry for money for the servers/upkeep.

It’s just a shame how much they did $H!t on the older escargot dev team. If it wasn’t for them, we wouldn’t have WLM and MSN Messenger back, at all. I personally really liked the people behind Escargot from back then. I remember that I had the chance to talk to WP and they actually gave me good vibes. Shame they’re gone now.

3 Likes

I kind of wish I knew what was going on behind the scenes before joining that community, honestly should have seen the red flags when I had a less than pleasant experience with one of the mods (who so happened to be the oh so lovely Animadoria~! /sarc)

all we had to do was follow the damn train cj! -Big Smoke, GTA SA

1 Like

It’s been a while, but since I was there (I’ve been on Escargot so long that 7.5 was the latest supported version at the time that I’ve joined), my timeline of events were as followed:

I had at that point registered multiple accounts under e-mail addresses I had no such way of accessing (usually because the domain couldn’t exist, or other reasons)

By the end of the relevant year, I had grown bored of Escargot with my main account, considering that the last year or so my main account was targeted in a rate-limit that made it unusable without popping open 300 authorization dialogs.

To be fair, at that point I had ran a contact list importer script to inject about 1200 or so contacts, which probably was a good reason for it, but ‘eh’.

Then the modernization scheme got announced with very little fanfare, I mostly just accepted it as “so if this is what kills my accounts so be it, I’d just watch it from the side-lines after this”.

I later checked in on their Discord to see how that was going, only to find not really much was happening in terms of development or anything to really have any staying power (WLM 2009 support being the last major thing that happened at that time)

So I kind of just waited it out, not really interacting with the community to try and see if it got better, in hindsight, it only got worse, but at the time I was really hoping something.

Turns out, nothing better really did ever happen, as E2 (from an observer’s perspective) was confounded with multiple (unannounced) delays.

Doesn’t help that most of the people I wanted to actually speak to had already left the Discord by that point.

When I revisited the Discord in 2024, it was very inactive, but I noticed Anima saying they had MSNP17 documentation to release eventually after writing it, which I don’t think was ever finished.

I made a few jokes about MSNP development being a slog during my return, but it wasn’t taken too kindly at the time. (Probably because as we’d learn by then, Anima was the only person actually capable of writing for the MSNP server)

I wasn’t paying attention to notice Skype support was being announced at the time, but eventually as we’d know, ‘The Event’ would happen.

Tony’s ‘final’ outbreak. The (from my perspective, possibly at worst, dubious, only proof of something of such happening is RAS/OOS’s name change) legal threat. The forced closing of NINA (which is funny to see denied despite the wording given when it happened).

At that point, Escargot finally became the laughing stock I was waiting for it to become since Modernization, and everyone got to know it.

Though… This is about NINA. Escargot somehow took the ‘hit’ pretty well. I was hoping that it just stopped existing a week or so in, to which it didn’t, because even NINA’s servers were still running, just not anything with HTML web presence.

Sure, at that time I was banking on MSNPiki being somewhere new, but considering the low quality with later protocol versions, I ‘gave up’ :wink:.

As for the OSCAR stuff, I feel like they were holding it back to like try and cover themselves. It was mostly documented fine disregarding that, but considering what they ‘might of’ had, they really could of overdone it.

As for the servers themselves (now):
Escargot is deteriorating. Pretty badly too if all those PPCRL login errors are to be believed.
NINA is “functioning”. I can only assume it’s being developed undercover to try and evade suspicion.

After knowing the kind of resources NINA actually had, I’m not surprised it was the most feature complete server… That still feels painful to say, but I just wish everyone else could catch up without playing dirty tricks to get compatibility out fast.

So in short: Yeah, I had pretty okay sentiment at the time, but Modernization did ruin it and make me a casual observer. Now if only we could understand why we’re playing this game still…

2 Likes

ok ik i defended escargot prior in this thread but

something i’ve wondered is how escargot’s total online usercount is always in the 1000+ range, when the total number of active users for each hour in /stats is usually around 100-200.

like how does it count total online usercount? where are the missing 1200 users?

anyways, if i had a nickel for every time an OIC-adjescant organization internally imploded but then appears to be running fine without issues, i’d have two, which is funny because both happened a few months apart.

5 Likes

Occam’s Razor: the total is falsified, and to believe otherwise is to be a fool.

as shady as escargot is the user count probably isn’t fake, the tables are just weird in that they seem to only register users who have logged in or sent messages during each hour. just to give an example crosstalk runs this same code and you’ll notice this inconsistency there too

the difference is that crosstalk lists 40 active users with ~90 total, while escargot is ~200 active users with ~1400 total.

I reckon escargot has many more users who are connected but not actively using the service

This doesn’t make sense unless they forked or partially referenced Escargot’s FE. If both services are doing the same thing, that’s dishonest and should be corrected. Idle users shouldn’t count as the total..

crosstalk is a fork of the old escargot code so it does make sense

1 Like

The code currently running on Escargot is effectively the same Escargot code that was open-source, with some modifications to support some of the microservices and other things internal to NINA as well as some feature updates. The open-source code was developed before Tony/Level Leap owned Escargot.

CrossTalk is, as of now, a fork of the open source Escargot code, with some of our own changes (i.e. more protocol support, infrastructure, etc.) - in the long term we have a refactor planned but this is mostly developed on our own time.

I see a lot of confusion about the user statistics - so that may be changed in the future. But we have a lot of other stuff to do, from infrastructure to protocol support to user experience to etc., and we’re kinda just working on CrossTalk in our spare time.

6 Likes

I requested under GDPR, a copy of my data. I sent it through the online contact form.
It has been 2 months, and I have not received an email back.
Sketchy…

tonyshowoff, May 2025, staff chat:

well that’s up to discord and as per mentioning nina and escargot, to get out ahead of that, the fact is, GDPR doesn’t apply to us, our allowing people to delete stuff is a courtesy
though plenty of people tried to argue with me when GDPR was passed that european union law somehow applied to american companies with zero presence in europe, yeah alright
the law actually does say that if they do charge an american entity you have to send a representative to the EU to be prosecuted which is so hilarious and cute
i mean fundamentally i don’t have any issue with GDPR, hence our delete account feature, but the cookie notice thing, totally unacceptable and irritating

Good luck.

im not totally into law or anything but there has been a company despite not being in the eu getting fined… EU: Dutch data protection fine further highlights questions over extra-territorial scope and international enforceability of GDPR | Eversheds Sutherland

“Clearview AI has no representation or establishment in Europe, and therefore argued that it falls outside the GDPR’s jurisdiction. Under Article 3(2) GDPR , companies not established in the EU can fall under its jurisdiction if they meet specific criteria: (1) The offering of goods or services to individuals in the EU, regardless of payment; or (2) The monitoring of individuals’ behaviour within the EU, as far as the behaviour takes place within the Union.”

Oh yeah - non-EU-based companies are totally still liable if they serve users in the EU (though, Tony is kinda right on one thing, actually getting to the company/person is a totally different story, and I doubt it would be pursued that heavily for a small company.) That was a direct quote of Tony pretty much saying “we don’t care about the GDPR” from fairly recently.

What I’m trying to say is, I doubt you’re getting your data request serviced by Escargot/NINA at this point lol. They don’t particularly care about being in compliance with GDPR.

I see I see, really sketchy what they are doing tbh.

Not sure if its anonymous or not (since I like to keep my identity private…) but it might be theoretically possible to lodge a complaint in with the ICO. (I’m not very good with legal stuff, but hopefully I can get all the correct information. Although my identity wanting to be private may be an issue. :sweat_smile: Though from what I seen it, may be more difficult with less details, although it is a global thing so might work.)

Since it is sorta linked to an actual company called Level Leap, Inc. it might be more viable (or well atleast a bigger chance). though the ICO website tells me I need to ask for a followup, so I’m thinking of doing that now. Not sure if the ICO will do anything since yes it is a small company but I guess it’s worth a try I guess. :stuck_out_tongue:

(Sorry if my writing seems off, I have been up and it’s already 4:31 AM. I’m going to sleep now, so I’ll respond tomorrow) Fixed my writing

gpdr works for all websites and companies that can be accessed from europe